(LDS stands for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is not an official site of the Church) The only site of it's kind on the web! Your home for everything gun, defense/security and preparedness related with a perspective of a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! We were Preppers when they were called Nuts!
Friday, September 9, 2022
Bishops and Security: Comment Reply
Back in February I wrote an article titled “Condition Yellow”. There was a comment by archerytom. This was his comment:
“I was recently called to be assistant emergency preparedness and comms specialist for our Ward. My partner and I had a brief interview with our Bishop a few weeks after I received the call. We sat to discuss, security measures for our Ward. Long and short, we were told, "No Way!" Long and short of it, the meeting did not go as we had hoped, not that we wanted roving armed patrols, far from it. But, what we did want was a team of trained observers that would know what signals to use, alarms to sound etc. IF, and potentially when, an emergency situation presented itself. In other words, we were told that the Brethren all but demand that when we are on Church properties, we are to stay in condition white to very "pale" yellow. His counsel, as well as the previous Bishop was, that we should be prepared but NOT to go on an offensive even IF there is an active shooter. We were told that we have chairs to throw, hymn books to throw and pews to hide beneath plus, we have strength in numbers. Meaning a bum's rush/dogpile on the rabbit. We asked about being in condition yellow, and he said, that on an individual level as heads of our families, "that's a decision we each need to make," but as far as being "sheepdogs" in our Ward, it's not permitted. I am curious and anxiously solicit your thoughts on this. I know you are getting only my perspective of this and yes I condensed it down as much as absolutely possible to get the gist of what I was hoping to convey out. Don't get me wrong here, in no way am I disparaging or "knocking" on our Bishop, he read much of what he conveyed to us right out of the handbook. He said that in his personal family, in his home, or when he is with his family, he plays by his own rules of conviction. But as far as the Ward/Stake meetings and functions and activities go, we must adhere to policy from the Brethren. I can't argue with that one point but still....”
I want to answer this comment. First, I apologize archerytom for taking so long to give my take on your situation. There are many things to consider in your ward and with your leadership. May I say that I was a Bishop so I can identify with your, and other Bishops. I appreciate his view of wanting to follow the brethren. I have no problem with that, we all should. And as far as a Bishop, he does represent the Church. But, the problem I have with the answer your Bishop gave is I feel it is somewhat of a “cop out”. I see it all the time. As a Bishop I just about memorized that handbook. I wanted to follow direction. I felt the weight of the calling and I didn’t want to mess up. I now think differently. I was interviewing a brother who had just been called as a General Authority. I recognized that this interview would be one that I would probably never do again. I wanted to glean as much wisdom from this good brother as I could in this one-on-one situation. As we talked and I expressed my thoughts on my calling and my ward he said something that changed how I feel about policy and handbooks. He said, “I was a Bishop for 13 years. I knew what Church policy was and what the handbook said, but that was not my first “go to”. When I needed to make decisions, I counseled with those I needed to counsel with, auxiliary Presidents or my counselors, and then I went by the Spirit. I can tell you that the Spirit told me more than once to do something that was the opposite of what the handbook told me. Those decisions were the best ones I ever made. They impacted the most lives and helped the most people. Go by the Spirit!” I heard that counsel after being a Bishop for about 8
months. I can tell you from personal experience that his counsel was the best thing I could have followed to be the best leader the Lord needed me to be.
Now, I’m not saying that your Bishop archerytom is not following the Spirit. What I am saying is that he should have told you, the preparedness specialists whom he called and set apart, who had a legitimate concern that was in their purview as preparedness specialists, that he would talk to his counselors, pray and then get back to you. To say “no” without thought, counsel, or prayer tells me he goes by the book, rather than by the Spirit. I’m not saying a leader should shoot for a course that bucks the system, but you guys were talking about the safety and security of the members of your ward! Why would you be so flippant about that? But I also recognize that your Bishop is probably a humble, good, dentist. Or manager. Or some vocation that is far away from violence or even security. Violence and events like unto violence are probably far from his experience. So without that, comes a less than expeditious attitude about security. Not that you have to be real experienced with violence to be security minded, but often there is what is called the normalcy bias. Or, “It won’t happen in our ward” type of attitude. It doesn’t happen to you until it does. I have been acquainted with violence since I got jumped in Junior High after an activity. It seems to find me, I never look for it. I embrace the suck, and try to be better prepared for it. But I can tell you prevention is so much better than reaction.
I happen to be in a ward that has many law enforcement. Federal, state, and local. These good people make up our “security team”. This is a loose term. The one thing our Bishop did was get everyone in the same place at one time to talk about security. Also, he asked these brothers and sisters to take note of where other law enforcement are to “team up” if needed. They meet once a quarter to touch base and they are part of a Telegram group online.
My opinion of security at Church is pretty clear. I have written many posts concerning it. These are a few:
My Suggestions For Church Defense Oct 9, 2019
What, Me Worry? Security At Church Sep 20, 2019
Current State Of Our Lives: Church Security Nov 11, 2017
Choirboy and Burn's List of Security At Church Aug 23, 2017
Carrying At Church Jan 22, 2016
How To Achieve Security At Church May 28, 2015
Mormons: Low Standards of Security Aug 4, 2014
Protection in Church Jan 29, 2014
There are other posts but this will definitely tell you where I stand on it. I feel we are too familiar and comfortable at church. We should be to some extent, but being aware and doing some things to mitigate the soft target is what I would suggest. And leaders, follow the Spirit and quit leaning everything you do on a handbook. Sheepdogs are permitted at church, but they must be law enforcement. Why we think law enforcement has a corner on this training and experience is beyond me. I’ve trained many in law enforcement who were less than stellar about their own preparedness to stop a threat. But unarmed people being aware and being organized to help others to “Run, Hide, Fight” (RHF) would be the least anyone should do. Just remember that RHF is not a checklist from one step to the next. The first thing that members should do is have a security mindset. The second is situational awareness. This can be done without packing an M4 and being paranoid. Although I would be remiss if I did not mention my opinion on concealed carry in a church building. Like many misguided individuals the church thinks the police can protect the members. Unless they happen to be a member of a congregation and they are actually carrying, they will not be much use. Like our government leaders the brethren are protected by guns but will not let the members protect themselves with a gun. Please do not think I do not sustain our leadership, I do. But this policy is a disaster waiting to happen. I predict it will happen one day. It kind of already has. I track violence in church buildings, mostly in the U.S. but there is some in other countries.
Violence
“2 Shot Dead In Mormon Library”
April 16, 1999
OAKLAND, CA— A Washington man with a history of attacking religious statues was arrested Thursday night after using a large ax to hack pieces off the hand of a Jesus statue at the Oakland Mormon Temple, police said.
December 9, 2004
Lehi, UT
“Woman shot to death outside church”
January 6th, 2008
Vasalia, CA
“Mormon bishop fatally shot in California chapel; gunman killed”
Aug. 30 2010
South Jordan, UT (Oquirrh Mountain Temple)
“Police shoot armed man outside LDS temple”
December 26, 2010
Columbus, OH (Columbus Temple)
“Police: 2 Shot In Parking Lot Of West Side Mormon Temple”
February 26, 2013
Las Vegas, NV (Las Vegas Temple)
“Son of judge killed himself in Las Vegas LDS temple courtyard”
Nov. 20 2013
SLC, UT
“Woman shot outside of church in South Salt Lake”
October 17, 2014
EAGAR, Arizona — An Arizona man is dead and two others injured — including a pregnant woman — after he began shooting at a LDS stake center in Eagar, Arizona, and later at his residence, officials say.
“Suspect killed by police after shooting at Mormon stake center”
May 24 2015
OAKLEY, CA — Two people were shot, and another bludgeoned multiple times, during a large fight between two groups outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints while Sunday service was getting out, police said.
June 28, 2015
GILBERT, Ariz. - Gilbert police are looking Wednesday morning for the three men involved in shooting a 19-year-old man at an LDS church Tuesday night.
April 20, 2016
Smithfield, UT
“Police have arrested a 30-year-old Smithfield man, Jason Summers, who is accused of shooting at someone while trying to break into an LDS Church, Thursday night.”
July 8, 2016
Solon, OH
An officer saw a man sitting in his car beside the LDS church. As the officer approached, the man jumped out of his car, ran into the trees and shot himself. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
August 2016
SLC, UT
A meth purchase gone bad led to a vehicle chase and shooting. The fleeing vehicle went into the parking lot of an LDS church as the aggressors caught up to them and continued shooting at them. The victims tried to break into the church to get away which prompted a burglar alarm & police came. Nobody was hit by the gunfire.
June 2016
Amarillo, TX
A 23-year-old man shot another man nearly a month before that Wednesday when he was injured in another gun battle. The man walked over a mile to get away from the scene where he knew police would be looking for him. He chose to hide behind an outside wall of the LDS church, where an observant officer noticed his leg sticking out. The man refused orders to show himself, and when the first thing officers saw was his gun they opened fire on him. He was hit but will survive.
June 2016
Vancouver, WA
As a group was in the LDS Church playing basketball, someone broke out a window in the other end of the church, entered the building, and set books and the podium on fire. The guys playing basketball smelled the smoke and discovered the fire, putting it out before anyone got hurt.
April 2016
Herriman, UT
A 12-year-old boy was playing in the parking lot of the LDS church when a man pulled up in his car and tried to convince the boy to get in with him. The boy ran off and police have been looking for the potential abductor.
March 2016
Idaho Falls, ID
A man’s estranged wife showed up at his funeral at an LDS Chapel and became angry. The bishop asked her to please not say those things, and she pulled out a gun and began to threaten the funeral attendees. Everyone got out safely, and police arrived to disarm and arrest her.
January 2016
Rigby, ID
Around 10:25 PM that Friday night police responded to the parking lot of an LDS church on reports of gunfire. Police found a shattered window at the church, then arrested a man a short time later based on descriptions given by witnesses.
January 2016
Riverside, CA - Girl abducted from Mormon Church sexually assaulted in dumpster
June 28, 2017
SLC, UT
A woman rebuked another woman for parking in a handicap spot without a sticker. The driver drove up beside her in the parking lot of the LDS Church and threw a Slushy in her face, then ran over her breaking both her legs. Police continue to look for the Cadillac Escalade driver.
April 2017
Kalamazoo, MI
A woman was in the LDS church parking lot when she was confronted by a man demanding her car keys. She refused, so he punched her repeatedly in the face and took it anyway. She had no idea it was at the end of a violent crime spree including armed robbery, arson, and another woman shot in her home.
January 2017
San Diego, CA
On November 29 (2017) a jihadist media group published an image suggesting San Diego could be in the crosshairs of terrorists this holiday season. The San Diego California Temple in University City appears to be their target of choice. An image of a terrorist holding an assault rifle was superimposed on the Mormon temple, which appears to be on fire. The two towering spires rise up on either side of the jihadist. A statement at the bottom of the image reads, “Coming Soon.. San Diego.” The words “Coming Soon” are wrapped in Christmas decorations and splattered with red.
November 2017
Newberry Township, Pennsylvania
A shooting on Friday, March 30, at a church in Newberry Township was ruled a suicide by the York County coroner.
“Police were on the scene at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, 800 Pleasant Drive, in the township when a coroner was dispatched about 6 p.m. for a report of a possible self-inflicted fatality, according to a coroner's report.”
March 2018
ST. GEORGE, Utah — A Mormon church spokesman says an intruder broke into a church temple in southern Utah and damaged furniture, artwork and other items before being stopped by church workers and arrested by police.
Eric Hawkins of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says the St. George Temple resumed normal operations after the incident Saturday morning.
Hawkins says the intruder damaged items as he made his way to the temple’s fifth floor and caused additional damage there.
(This is not physical violence. But the guy had to have had something in his hand to do this damage. And he made it to the 5th Floor!) May 2018
Fallon, NV
On Sunday, a middle-aged Mormon man went into the LDS chapel where his ward was having sacrament meeting, and sat quietly for part of the service. Then he opened fire, killing one ward member and wounding another.
July 22, 2018.
Goiania, Brazil
Five people were injured in a mass knife attack at a meetinghouse in Goiânia, Brazil
December 2, 2018
St George, UT
A gunman fired his weapon at a group of individuals at a meetinghouse parking lot
July 23, 2019
Sao Paolo, Brazil
A missionary training center was infiltrated by an intruder armed with a knife; the intruder was shot and killed by police
February 5, 2020
Provo, UT
A gunman fired shots at the Church's missionary training center in Provo, Utah
August 3, 2020
Torreon, Mexico– Two men carrying firearms entered a meetinghouse in Torreón, Coahuila, Mexico during a zone conference among the missionaries of the Church in that area. The two men demanded cell phones, tablets, and wallets, assaulting some of the missionaries in the process; the mission president and his wife were also assaulted and threatened with a knife.
November 12, 2021
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. — A missionary with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is in serious condition after being shot multiple times Friday at a church site in Alabama.
December 3, 2021
This list is a cursory “Google” search on the internet. My guess is there is more that I have not seen. I don’t give this list to scare anyone. Indeed, I only do it to help support the idea that violence can and does happen at Church buildings everywhere. It should be noted and prepared for instead of reacted to.
Thanks archerytom for your comment, and for being interested in my little blog.
Stay safe!
Semper Paratus
Check 6
Burn
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